This pretty much got under my skin. President Obama has crossed a huge line. And some people just don't get it.
Before I post pictures of my vacation, I had to post this. I would like to know what you think. I got this from the Fox News website.
If President Obama has his way, you'll soon be hearing about his health care package when you go to your church or synagogue to pray.
Thousands of religious leaders got a call from on high Wednesday when Obama reached out to Jewish and Christian clergy, urging them to push health care reform from the pulpit.
Obama spoke to about 140,000 people of faith in a conference call and webcast Wednesday evening. He and a White House official discussed the moral dimension of health care, telling the mostly Christian audience that "this debate over health care goes to the heart of who we are as a people."
But earlier that day, Obama went much further, asking about 1,000 rabbis to preach his political agenda in their sermons on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year.
The conversation was supposed to be off the record but was captured on the Twitter feeds and blogs of some rabbis who took part in the call, which was organized by the Union of Reform Judaism and included rabbis from other denominations.
"I am going to need your help in accomplishing necessary reform," Obama said, according to Rabbi Jack Moline of Virginia, whose Twitter feed has since been scrubbed of the information.
Obama told the rabbis that "we are God's partners in matters of life and death" and asked them to "tell the stories of health care dilemmas to illustrate what is a stake" in their sermons, Moline wrote.
Critics say Obama's message seemed to "cross a line" and imply a kind of "scriptural or holy support for the program."
"I can't imagine why it would be appropriate for a president even to suggest a partnership with God somehow was connected to his ideas for health care," said the Rev. Barry Lynn.
"Whenever politicians give a message that implies that God is on their side on an issue ... this always troubles me."
A White House official told FOX News that Obama spoke at the invitation of the rabbis, who had many questions about health care. Current events often come up in sermons, the official said, and during the highly attended holidays many rabbis and congregants are likely to be interested in discussing the topic.
"We are not asking Rabbis to give a political lecture -- we don't expect everybody will want to hear sermons on health care," the official said.
Mark Pelavin, who organized the call from the Reform movement's Washington office, said the president talked about why the health care system needed to be fixed, but Pelavin declined to discuss Obama's specific remarks.
Pelavin, the associate director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, said his office organizes one or two such calls a year with experts and politicians to discuss issues of great interest to Jewish leaders, and health care was a natural topic.
Rabbis may choose to discuss health care in their sermons but will "stay away from partisan politics, but certainly they'll talk about issues that are facing the country," he told FOXNews.com.
But other rabbis present noted their discomfort with the president's message, and said they believed he was "using religious organizations to promote policy."
"I find the blurring of church and state to be disconcerting, not only on political grounds ... but also for competency," wrote Rabbi Josh Yuter of Manhattan, who was also on the call.
"Rabbis have enough difficulty understanding the nuances and intricacies of their own religion to be promoting specific policies in areas for which they have no expertise."
Barry Lynn said that although Obama is a religious man, he generally avoids emphasizing the religious basis for his decisions, adding he was disappointed that the president had "clouded this debate" with an underlying religious emphasis.
"This seems to, unfortunately, cross a line," he said.
13 comments:
Like I said in the post, I want to here your thoughts on all of this.
I already gave a brief picture of how I feel. I know that Obama is our president and God made him our leader and I'm supposed to respect him, but he really bothers me. I can barely stand to listen to him speak anymore. Like I said, this really gets under my skin, to put it nicely.
i think it's all really scary.
i'm really not into politics at all - but dad tells me about whats been going on sometimes.
i can't believe that obama wants to stop giving health care to the elderly! in one of his speeches he was saying that we all care for our elderly parents/grandmother etc because of guilt. and he wants to "remove that guilt." the unspoken - by letting them die!
i think that this is a time when we all just have to trust God. he has a plan for everything, and if Obama became president, that's because it's all in God's plan. we just have to remember that and trust in him.
This is not only annoying, it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Again, UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Go read the Constitution; it's very clear about what the government can do, and Article ten of the Bill of Rights says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." So what Obama's trying to do is an absolute violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and why doesn't somebody do something?
I totally agree with both of you.
What Obama is doing is completely against the very things that our country is based upon.
But it is also very true that we need to trust God in all things, and not lean on our own (or others) understanding.
Its kinda like what happened in the Old Testement. The people asked for a king that they could see and touch instead of God. So God gave them Saul.
The American people wanted Obama because he was different then what we have had before. So, we got Obama... And all of the debt and health care that came with him...
Are you upset more about the health-care or about Obama talking with the church leaders?
A little of both I think. But more so about him talking to the church leaders. There needs to be a line between the church and the government. A really big line.
And the fact that Obama is so bold to even think about trying to sell his ideas to the church really bothers me.
One of the main reason it bothers me though is that he thinks that it would be better to let those who are sick, elderly, or whatever, to just die. I mean, what if he started to say that people like my great-grandma Ethel who is in back surgery as I write this, are no longer worth the trouble, and that we should just let them be so that the don't cost us so much money. I know he doesn't say it just like that, but that is what it implies. That is what makes me mad.
I'm just going to come out and say it... It was a HUGE mistake for the American people to put Obama in the White House.
Vivain, I think you need to be carefull when you say: "There needs to be a line between the church and the government. A really big line." Some people could flip this and say: We will not let you speak about your Religan in Congress or the senate!
Harrison
Alexandra, As Treebeard said: "It is easier to yell stop than to do it."
@Brynn- I would like to see the text for that speech, do you happen to have a link or something?
@Alexandra- I'm afraid that this is not the first time that the government is exercising powers that were not granted by the constitution. For better or for worse the government does not explicitly follow the country's founding documents.
@Vivian- Let's pretend for a second that we are in Obama's position. We have a proposition that will, according to what we believe, bring something good to people who do not have anything. To ostensibly help the poor and needy. Now, logically, what organizations go to great lengths to provide money and support to those or similar groups of people? Now, not all Christians are conservative right-wing fanatics, like we might possibly consider ourselves, so there is quite possibly a large audience to direct his "pleas for help for the poor and needy."
@Harrison- You are exactly right. We like to think that our point of view is right and that there should be laws that support that, such as separation of church and state, but as soon as those laws seem to infringe in our views, such as maybe prayer in school or something, then those laws immediately become evil and anti-christian.
Comments???
Yeah, Will. You are right. Sometimes I just get so frusterated with the government. and harrison, I also agree with what you said, but seeing as I will never be working in Congress or the senate, I still stick with what I said. Now, I'm not encourage those who do work there to think like that. But really, it's true. The governmet shouldn't be interfering with our church life. It is a different thing all together to talk about religion in places like Congress and the senate because that is the very thing our country is based upon.
Will,I think that you are right, Obama is doing what he thinks is best for the country.
Alexandra, I do not understand that frise: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Could you please explane it to me?
By the way guys, Here is some thing the Obama sent me, Please tell me what you think of it!
Dear Friend:
Thank you for contacting me. I have heard from
countless Americans struggling to afford health insurance
and health professionals striving to provide care. I
appreciate your perspective. There is broad consensus
among the American people on the need for affordable,
high-quality health care. The rising cost of health care is
the most pressing financial challenge for families and for
our Nation, and controlling this cost is essential to bringing
down the Federal deficits we inherited. Now is the time to
move forward, and I am committed to getting health care
reform done this year.
Since I took office, we have done more to advance
the cause of health care reform than we have in the
previous decade. In February, I signed H.R. 2 to provide
coverage for millions of children through the Children's
Health Insurance Program. I also signed the American
Recovery and Reinvestment Act to make key investments
in computerized medical records and preventive services.
Looking forward, we will take additional steps to
lower costs, expand coverage, and improve the quality of
health care. My 2010 Budget makes a major down
payment on health care reform, funded by implementing
efficiencies in government health care spending and
restoring a sense of fairness and balance to our tax code.
There are tough choices to be made, and I will bring
businesses and workers, health care providers and patients,
and Democrats and Republicans together to create a system
that delivers better care and puts the Nation on a much
sounder long-term fiscal path. To learn more about my
agenda and share a personal story, please join me online at:
www.healthreform.gov. For further information on health
care and assistance that may be available to you, you may
call 1-800-FEDINFO or visit: www.usa.gov.
I share the sense of urgency that millions of Americans
have voiced. I watched as my ailing mother struggled with
stacks of insurance forms in the last moments of her life.
This is not who we are as a Nation; together, we will fix it.
Sincerely,
Barack Obama
Clouding his debate? IF he is a true christian he should be asking God about every Political desision he makes!
Comments???
reply to willdog - sorry i don't have the text for that speech, i just heard it from my dad who listens to a talk show radio thing where they talk about politics. as i said i am really not into government and stuff so...
sorry!
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